The Uses of the Pootle Explore App: Amy Burgoyne and Charlotte Watkins.

If you haven’t heard previous shows there’s plenty of content for you if you’re going through a divorce, want to know more about claiming for injuries or you’re training to be a lawyer. You can listen to these shows on your favourite podcast app and get more information by visiting lblaw.co.uk forward slash knowledge. In this podcast Amy Burgoyne from the Personal Injury Team chats with Charlotte Watkins, the co-founder and CEO of of Pootle. The Pootle app was born from Charlotte’s love of being outside, enjoying the Shropshire hills and her desire to identify accessible routes for wheelchair users, people using mobility aids and for families with pushchairs or prams. Pootle provides detailed information on routes from difficulty to parking facilities.


[00:00:58 – 00:01:43] Amy: Hello, my name is Amy Burgoyne and I’m a legal support assistant in the personal injury team here at Lanyon Bowdler Solicitors. Today I’m going to be interviewing Charlotte Watkins who is a co-founder of the Pootle app. From my work in the personal injury team, our purpose is to try and help our clients get back to or somewhere close to where they were prior to the accident. So for an accident can have a huge impact on a client’s physical and mental health. health and we all know from research that’s out there the benefit of getting outside and how that can improve our physical and mental health. The Poodle app gives people the opportunity to be able to get outside and have an idea of the sorts of routes that they can access in order to do that.


[00:01:42 – 00:01:51] Charlotte: Hi there, I am Charlotte and co-founder of Pootle and also just to add that we have, well struck me, I’ve got


[00:01:50 – 00:02:19] Charlotte: Got my seven-week-old baby so she hears him snuffling. It’s not us. So yeah, I’m Charlotte and yeah, founder of Poodle App. And then we sort of came up with the idea sort of in spring last year and started off with the two of us. We’ve been working through it and we launched in June and did some upgrades. So yeah, we’re now on the app stores and trying to get as many people outside and into nature as possible really, anyone with accessibility needs.


[00:02:19 – 00:02:28] Amy: Charlotte, what background have you come from? In terms of like career and sort of experience in this field.


[00:02:27 – 00:04:31] Charlotte: Professionally, I am a land agent and chartered surveyor. And from graduating in, I think it was 2015 or 16 now, it feels like a lifetime ago, from Harper Adams, I studied rural enterprise and land management and I went into the private sector. I worked for a firm in Herefordshire, came to Shropshire, worked for a private firm. and sort of managed landed estates for private clients and then sort of 2022 a few things changed in my life and it made me realise that actually I wanted to do something to benefit more people rather than individuals I then moved to the charitable sector I also wanted a slightly better work-life balance I was finding I was working long hours to benefit like quite a small number of people although I loved the people I used to work with. with. So yeah, I sort of moved over to the charitable sector and I work as a land agent in the charitable sector and manage large rural estates over sort of South Shropshire and Herefordshire and over sort of the Midlands and east of England sort of ad hoc work. I saw a lot of the benefits that my work was doing, but it wasn’t as direct as I wanted it to be. So I’ve always sort of thought where are there opportunities to help people. born and I love being outside so when I was in private practice I was also training for triathlons which I took quite seriously for a period of time I qualified for the world and European triathlon championships and then COVID hit so I wasn’t able to do those they were meant to be in Estonia and Canada I think it was but yes I couldn’t do that and I moved in with a couple of friends and they lived in the hills in Shropshire and I started running every morning before work work from their house and I just really discovered this love for the hills and for the mountains so that’s my I suppose my personal side of it so professionally that’s what I do nine till five now I’m on maternity leave yeah so when I came up with the idea of pootle I started that was took up a lot of my personal time and that sort of fed in from a passion of being outside in nature and That community as well that that brings.


[00:04:30 – 00:04:53] Amy: You know, that’s really interesting. And I think, you know, it’s so nice to hear how passionate you are about the topic. And I think like, you know, of what I know about the app so far and what I’m going to find out, you know, those values and principles behind the app are like in your blood. Someone that doesn’t, you know, yourself design that app with yourself and others in mind for the things that you really, really enjoy is really nice to see.


[00:04:52 – 00:04:53] Charlotte: Eh?


[00:04:52 – 00:05:02] Amy: Was there like a moment or is there a bit of a story behind when you sort of have that thought of I need to create an app that does this?


[00:05:02 – 00:06:40] Charlotte: So yeah, there is actually, there’s like a key moment. So I think as part of the running I was doing in the hills, I then joined the fell running club and really built a community around that. So I’m in my thirties and a lot of the people I was running with and the groups I was going out with were sort of people of a similar age. And we’d go out and around that sort of age I see people are starting families. So actually the idea originally came from I was in Comer Woods, which is just near Bridgenorth in South Shropshire, with a friend who was running with a buggy. I normally would be running on the hills and if we’re going somewhere slightly different, we’d often use various apps to find routes and we would download the GPX file, put it onto our watch and away we would go. I think as soon as my friends started having children and we weren’t able to just go out for a run wherever we wanted, because obviously you’ve got to know where wheels can get and particularly if there’s any obstacles, it came down to like trial and error. so there was nowhere that we could just find this information and I think what came out of that and this trial and error was actually there are a lot of routes out there but there’s just it’s just so difficult to find them and if we were struggling to find them people that spent or are sort of spare time outdoors, then what about people that maybe didn’t have that experience behind them? Like where were they finding this information? So it really came about in coma woods in South Shropshire with my friend running with a buggy. So that’s where it came from and I sort of. let it breathe for a bit and went and spoke to Chris who’s now my co-founder.


[00:06:39 – 00:07:05] Amy: Yeah I think you know the story behind the fact that you have so much like inquisitiveness yourself to go and explore these other routes and with your running and you know always looking for new places to run I think that’s great because I think you know the routes that you find is always going to keep building because you’re always going to be going on new ones. to sell, to try and discover new ones that obviously then can be used for the app.


[00:07:04 – 00:07:06] Charlotte: Yeah, definitely.


[00:07:05 – 00:07:13] Amy: So can you tell us a bit more about the app and how the app works for people that would be looking to use it?


[00:07:12 – 00:10:11] Charlotte: We did a lot of research before building the app and we went out and, you know, met a whole like host of different people. So it’s obviously, I think what’s very obvious to me as we were going through this journey is that it’s not just Not just buggies, it’s people with mobility aids, so like wheelchairs and there’s then a whole different classification of wheelchair. You’ve got like class one all the way up to class four and they’ve got different capabilities, people have different experience. So we went out and met a lot of these people, a lot of these communities and we’ve actually built it around what their needs are and what their requirements are and where the shortcomings of other apps. were to use Pootle you can use it either to discover routes and it is quite an app at the moment so we’ve got 400 routes at the moment across the UK which we’re growing and so you can use it to to find those routes you can click on a route and then you can navigate it and you can download the GPX file so you don’t have to necessarily look at your phone the whole time you’re using it you can put it onto a watch and follow it sort of step by step through that or you can use it to actually create gate routes so you can create routes on the app before you go out or you can record it save it so you can use it again and you can then make that public to bring as much benefit to the community as possible so one of the key things with Pootle that we’re really trying to focus on is to build that community element because obviously we there’s four of us actually involved in Pootle and the four of us Once based in London through us based in Shropshire we can’t cover the whole country ourselves so we’re going to be relying on sort of people to contribute and then those routes get verified so if you if you create a route say you’re in the Lake District you create a route around like Windermere you can submit that to us for review so we will We’ll review that as a desktop exercise, but then we’ve also got our pootle pioneers who are those people that helped contribute to our app in its infancy. When they’re in the areas they can go out and recce the route and then it will be verified in person as well. So it just gives people that extra layer of confidence when they’re going out. And the key thing with the app as well is that we don’t want to tell people they can or can’t do a route. We want to provide them with sufficient information that they can make. can make that decision for themselves as to whether that route is for them and to provide them with that relevant information so like photos and we can also the route also details like what like who did that route most recently any comments they had on the route and also what type of equipment Did it? So whether it was a class four scooter like a tramper which is has off-road capabilities, was it a manual wheelchair, was it someone with a buggy and when did they do it at the time of year because we appreciate a lot of routes as well are going to be seasonal so there can be some routes that in the spring, summer, early autumn are perfectly fine but then there’s going to be times when actually in the winter they’re probably not as accessible so


[00:10:10 – 00:10:12] Amy: Yes.


[00:10:11 – 00:10:14] Charlotte: it really is going to rely on that community input. Mm.


[00:10:13 – 00:11:04] Amy: I was going to say it’s amazing that, you know, the number of routes that you said, you know, 400 routes for how long you’ve been going and also the range of features on the app. I think, you know, from experience with working with clients, you know, they have their accident and then, you know, there’s a period where they can feel quite lonely and, you know, not really feel like they’ve got much purpose. And also I think the anxiety and fear of going off and trying out new things. things without having all the information, all the answers to their questions. So I think the fact that all of that information is available for them and the fact that they can create roots but also they’re in a community where they can see, you know, get, you know, make contact with others, you know, in a similar situation to them. I mean, you know, I think that aspect is so important as well.


[00:11:04 – 00:11:19] Charlotte: Yeah, we’re really… really want to focus on that community element not it’s going to take time to build up but it’s there I think if people see other people doing stuff as well it just brings people together and yeah that’s the bit I’m most excited about actually with Puto is just that community element of it


[00:11:18 – 00:11:43] Amy: Yeah, no, and I think, you know, where you talked about your journey and joining those running groups and sort of forming that community, you know, again, you know, you can see your passion for that and, you know, that’s such a big element. of the app and so I guess sort of going on from what we’ve just talked about so have you sort of you know that feedback like what sort of impact have you seen the app having so far?


[00:11:43 – 00:12:54] Charlotte: So we’ve had people reaching out to us, we’ve got a like on the app, we’ve got like a report a problem, like request a feature and also just people can comment directly to us, it will come into our inbox and people that we’ve never. spoken to have been reaching out to us to ask sort of well to say what a good idea it is but also just to ask like what sort of features that could like possibly be created which goes directly into what we’re creating but it’s just it’s just the fact that people that are unconnected to us are already reaching out to us to sort of say like confirm that need all of these people were saying just to get out the front door when they were going somewhere new they were using sometimes three apps to plot a route to zoom in and actually check if the route was accessible for them where they could park what facilities were there and also the type of terrain and any sort of photos that they could find on it so it would sometimes take people half a day to plan an hour two hour trip out so yeah like that was big thing really


[00:12:53 – 00:13:27] Amy: Yeah, and I think, you know, touching on that, you get an outside and sometimes you just want to be away from technology. And I think the aspect that you said that, you know, you can have it on your phone or you can have it on your watch, you know, that’s that’s as important for your physical and mental health that you’re sort of, you know, you might just want to. step away from everything else that’s happening and I think you know particularly for people that have had accidents or you know difficult experiences being able to get away from that is as important as you know getting their heart rate up a bit and being surrounded


[00:13:26 – 00:13:27] Charlotte: Definitely yeah


[00:13:26 – 00:13:28] Amy: by nature


[00:13:27 – 00:13:59] Charlotte: and not having to like go to great lengths to even find these places is just so important like not taking a day to plan a day is yeah one thing that was sort of core to the to the reason that we’ve created it really and also going back to technology you can download it offline so you can download it have it offline so you can be on airplane mode or whatever if you really don’t want those notifications coming through on your phone you can just have that and obviously if you’ve got a watch then you can just have it on your watch and not even worry about a screen


[00:13:58 – 00:14:19] Amy: Yeah, and I think, you know, the feedback that you’re getting from people using the app. gaps and asking about the different features and stuff that could be added in I think that’s really important because I think different people’s experiences different needs but you know it wouldn’t be possible you know without having that you know input from the people that are using the app you


[00:14:18 – 00:14:19] Charlotte: Yeah.


[00:14:18 – 00:14:35] Amy: know all of those things nobody would ever be able to think of all of those things would they so you know that’s a very valuable aspect um so you mentioned of the ideas that people have been suggesting. What are your aspirations going forward for the app?


[00:14:35 – 00:15:00] Charlotte: We just want to benefit as many people as possible. And I think in, I don’t know, in a few years time, it’d be amazing to see it beyond the UK and to benefit such that wider community. also like we really like that community growing we want people to be seeing like groups of people using it and going out together and in like


[00:15:00 – 00:16:17] Part 2 – Speaker 0: something’s increasing tenfold just by using the app and being able to get out we want our like the routes across the UK to obviously like be far more than what we’ve got now like the 400 and what I think would be really nice is to be able to use it as an example to local authorities and things like that that actually a lot of trails are more accessible than they think and if they put a style in there or even sometimes a kissing gate it automatically just shuts out so many people from those places and I don’t think organisations like realise that and I think we didn’t at the start we like one of the ladies we went to meet in the first instance she’s got a tramper which is like quite an industrial looking mobility scooter and the terrain that that has the capabilities of crossing is really like quite something and it’s the sort of thing that that like a large land-owning organisation might be like oh that trail is not accessible we’ll just put a style in there and actually it is so being able to say actually these places are accessible so can you think about the infrastructure you’re putting in everywhere else yeah so if we can use it as an example of like what’s possible for people then I think that would be amazing as well


[00:16:16 – 00:16:58] Part 2 – Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, you know, it’s that is. It sounds wonderful how much the app is growing and could continue to grow because I think, you know, from our perspective in a personal injury team where, you know, as part of their claim, we’re obviously helping them to get those funds in for them to be able to have the particular kind of wheelchair that they’d like. I think, you know, I’ve learned so much from talking to you about, you know, like the different kinds of chairs that people might have. have and you know like you said to local authorities and stuff you know knowing what might work and what wouldn’t work you know I think I think the impact of the app could and will hopefully spread so wide which is really really good if


[00:16:57 – 00:16:58] Part 2 – Speaker 0: thank you yeah


[00:16:57 – 00:17:06] Part 2 – Speaker 1: people listening would like to install the app can you give them some information on how they’d be able to do that please


[00:17:05 – 00:17:50] Part 2 – Speaker 0: so um on the app store on either like apple app store or google play store you can type in it’s pootle explore and you can download it from directly from there and there’s a bit more information as well on our website although our website is quite um basic at the moment just because we’re throwing all of our attention into the app but that’s like pootle.app online you can email um email me which is like charlotte at pootle.app and you can also have a look we’ve got a few demos and stuff on our instagram page um which is pootle.app app and you can message us on there as well there’s a few sort of demos on how it works and the sort of places people can go and some of the routes that we’ve recently uploaded and the views and all of that sort of sort of things on there as well that’s


[00:17:49 – 00:17:53] Part 2 – Speaker 1: Perfect. Thank you very much for speaking with me today, Charlotte.


[00:17:52 – 00:17:54] Part 2 – Speaker 0: right thank you very much for having me


[00:17:53 – 00:17:54] Part 2 – Speaker 1: You’re


[00:17:53 – 00:17:55] Part 2 – Speaker 0: and


[00:17:54 – 00:17:55] Part 2 – Speaker 1: very welcome.


[00:17:54 – 00:17:57] Part 2 – Speaker 0: Senna has stayed asleep


[00:17:59 – 00:18:16] Part 2 – Speaker 2: Thank you to Amy and our special guest Charlotte. If you have a legal issue you’d like me to put to our team to cover in an upcoming episode, please let me know by visiting lblaw.co.uk forward slash knowledge where you can search for all our podcasts. That’s lblaw.co.uk forward slash knowledge.


[00:18:16 – 00:18:20] Part 2 – Speaker 3: That was The Legal Lounge from Lanyon Bowdler Solicitors.